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| 11-week aborted fetus |
Parents do not look at ultrasounds of their unborn children and say, “I can't wait until he's really alive!” or "she's really a person!" To the contrary they talk to them, read to them, play music for them, and playfully chastise them for kicking mommy. My brother and sister were even given nicknames, Company and Bump respectively. When their fingers were still webbed they were loved as much as they are today. Three weeks after conception the brain and nervous system begin to develop. A heartbeat is detectable at seven weeks. By week eight the developing infant is moving constantly and has fingers. By week 12 the fingers have developed nails and unique fingerprints. Yet some think “terminating” is okay. At this point the fetus is just mutilated in the womb and vacuumed out as the above picture with the quarter shows. The process at 20-24 weeks is more gruesome than most murders. The picture at right illustrates. If a person did that on a whim they would be considered a monster, mentally depraved and, most likely, killed in prison. But if performed in a clinic under the guise of “woman’s rights” I am supposed to accept it? I think not.If you have no problems with the pictures on this page then I guess you're almost ready to be pro-abortion. Let me tell you how I make MY moral decisions... I ask myself this, “Can I do it?” I eat meat because I can kill and clean an animal. I support wars that are justified because I am willing to fight them. I am anti-abortion because I could never do the things depicted on this page. Could you?
So there you have it. I'm pro-choice, and anti-abortion. Planned Parenthood performs more abortions in the US than any other provider of that service. As far as I am concerned, they can either stop performing them and help these people PLAN their PARENTHOOD, or they should be defunded. Stop abortions and keep your money. But you see, they can't do that, because they make too much money on abortions. Trust me... they're not hurting. Basically Planned Parenthood has promoted abortion to serve their own ends, and in the process turned itself into just another social program that allows people to be as irresponsible as they'd like with no consequences, at least in the near term. The difference is this social program kills unborn humans. I'm aware of the debate that "no federal money is used to perform abortions." Well, if Planned Parenthood will fail without federal money then it's clear that federal money is indeed providing abortions.
3 Faye Wattleton, “Speaking Frankly,” Ms., May / June 1997, Volume VII, Number 6, 67.
4 Naomi Wolf, “Our Bodies, Our Souls,” The New Republic, October 16, 1995, 26.
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All I can say is that you must not understand what my stance is on this. I'm not pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice. I think that, with the exception of a small minority, everyone would be happier in a world with zero abortions. Nobody wants abortions to be used as birth control. And the choice to have an abortion is one that is many times the hardest decision a woman has to make in her life and also one that many times has an immeasurable impact on the emotional and psychological lives of the women who have them. But if someone you loved had medical issues that forced them to choose between putting her life at risk or having an abortion, would you have her and her "human fetus" both die? Nobody is pro-abortion and the great majority of what Planned Parenthood does is to try to prevent women from having from ever having to consider that awful choice. I guess I should have known better than to even post anything the other day. Thanks for the shout out though...
ReplyDeleteEHM said... “I guess I should have known better than to even post anything the other day.”
ReplyDeleteDon't say that! Nothing bad came from your comment. Nothing. I'm not at all upset. While nothing bad came from your comment, at least two good things DID come from it. First, now I DO know your stance on this subject. Your stance is yours, and even if I did disagree with you, your voice is just as important as mine. On this one, though, we appear to agree as much as disagree. The second good thing is that I've been wanting to write this blog for over a year. You and KP helped me get the lead out.
In response to your comment, “Nobody wants abortions to be used as birth control. And the choice to have an abortion is one that is many times the hardest decision a woman has to make in her life,” you may want to consider that over 40% of the women Planned Parenthood provides abortions to have already had an abortion through PP previously. Some of that is birth control. Also, there are more than a few documented cases of PP steering the patient toward abortion.
The points I made above were to correct some misconception about abortion that I saw on KP's wall, but the main point was in the final paragraph of the blog. The Hyde amendment (which is really a rider attached to bills) makes federally funding abortions illegal (in most cases). I will now lay out three “facts.”
1. Planned Parenthood (PP) provides abortions.
2. PP receives federal funding.
3. If federal funding stops PP will fail.*
Using the most basic logic it is clear that federal funds are being used to provide abortions.
* For what it's worth, I don't believe this. It will cut in on PP's profit margin. It's the same thing as NPR. The Democrats can't let that happen because they will lose millions in campaign contributions every year. It's not about woman's health, woman's rights, or culture... it's politics and money.
So either PP does not need federal funding to exist, in which case they should not have it; or PP does need federal funding to exist so they can provide abortions, in which case they should not have it.
I would be more than happy to provide some funding to PP if they would no longer offer abortion as a “solution.”
Please keep your hands and YOUR moral values off my wife's uterus. I'm sick of men like yourself telling women how to control their own bodies.
ReplyDeleteBTW, if you ONLY support "justfied" wars then Bush and Cheney are war criminals.
Your self-righteous babbling isn't worth 2 cents.
Adios.
Oh wait, let me guess! You're a... umm... Democrat!
ReplyDeleteYou're impressed aren't you! I can tell you are! It's like magic isn't it? It's really not that hard, let me show you how I did it. You had three key indicators...
1. You tried to imply things that I didn't actually say.
You say I'm “telling women how to control their own bodies”? I said more than once up there that I am pro-CHOICE. Your wife's uterus is safe from me (the rest of her is safe, too... promise). I am opposed to using abortion as birth-control, but as I said, that is a decision the woman has to make. Nowhere did I say that abortion should be illegal. Did I? I am opposed to federally funding abortion and killing babies as a matter of convenience (a la Planned Parenthood).
2. Somehow, and I really have to give you props on this one, you managed to blame Bush.
“BTW, if you ONLY support "justfied" [sic] wars then Bush and Cheney are war criminals.” Does that really make sense to you? So if I did NOT support justified wars then they would NOT be war criminals? Wow... that made sense in your head, huh? But I think I understand what you meant to say. You meant because of Libya, Obama is a war criminal also. Right? But this is a topic for another blog.
3. If my opinion differs from yours I must be smeared and vilified.
“Self-righteous babbling”? It's called an “opinion.” Unlike YOU, I chose to back my opinion with some of the FACTS that lead to me to form it. Actually, you didn't share an opinion, per se, you just sort of tried to malign me (it didn't work by the way). If I were truly self-righteous I could simply delete your post from this forum. But it will stay here. Also unlike YOU, I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion and they should be allowed to share it without fear of attack. Even unintelligent comments (read, yours) deserve to be heard.
Anything else I can do for you, Anonymous? If not, have a great day.
No, I'm a liberal. The Democratic Party is beholden to corporate interests (as is the GOP).
ReplyDeleteIn the end, you want the government's spending to reflect your moral values and not mine. Your "FACTS" in no way swayed my views on abortion. Isn't that your purpose here, to sway opinions to your viewpoint? Or, are you just tossing your views out there for others to marvel at your intelligence? I'd like to see more funding for Planned Parenthood and other social programs and less for the military/terror-industrial complex (excepting VA and GI Bill benefits).
@Anonymous said, “In the end, you want the government's spending to reflect your moral values and not mine” Based on the fact that you are upset by this, I assume the same holds true for you. So if that was supposed to imply I'm somehow selfish then so are you. Correct? Seriously, can you name one person who gets upset when the government does what they want.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous said, “Isn't that your purpose here, to sway opinions to your viewpoint?” Actually, no. My purpose here is to create a place where people of every political flavor can come to discuss issues. This is from my very first post on this blog in February of last year...
“... please feel free to share your opinion, but do so in a cordial manner. Do not blast me because we think differently. If I don't share your viewpoint it doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong. Besides, if everyone agreed on everything life would be boring. I want to hear your side whether you agree or disagree. You may even change my mind. “
I also said, “I would like this to be an intelligent arena. I want thinkers with opinions and facts to come here. I'd like folks with opposing (and aligned) viewpoints to share ideas and thoughts. I just ask that we all be civilized. I'm looking for philosophers... not barbarians.”
If you'd like to read the full post you can find it here...
http://jshrimp.blogspot.com/2010/02/getting-underway.html
You might find it enlightening to see how open-minded, respectful people think.
Now naturally, I would love to see the undecided folks out there see my point of view and accept it. I would also love to see those who vehemently disagree with me slide a little closer to center. That is the purpose of debate. Debate is an important part of our government that many (not all) on the left have abandoned for name calling and slander. You're not going to be able to discredit me, try a different approach.
If you'd like to debate this I am all for it. Two things, though. First, leave your attitude at the door. You can have it back when you leave. Second, debate the issues. Quit deflecting by trying to make me out to be a bad guy. Speak to the issues, you'll be much more convincing and persuasive that way. Because if all you plan to do is try to blame or implicate me then I'm just going to keep calling you on it and make it clear to all that pass this way that you didn't have a leg to stand on and floundered until you gave up.
By the way, putting “facts” in quotes like that? That doesn't make the statistics, procedures and pictures I posted untrue. It just means you find them inconvenient truths. Again, debate them, don't try to dismiss them by throwing some quotation marks up there.
So, I invite you to sit so we can discuss things like intelligent people. Here, I'll start. How do you propose to fund giving more money to expand social programs?
I laugh at how the far right feel that their morals, are and should be supreme. I am assuming you are a bible thumper, with out the bible? Spewing your far right rhetoric. The only difference between you guys and religious fanatics in the middle east is that they die for their beliefs. You guys don't want to take it that far, only believe in the bible, as long as it doesn't interfere with your posh american life style.
ReplyDeleteI laugh, it is very comical.
Thanks for proving everything I've said.
ReplyDeleteAgain, you deflect, ignore the issue, make insinuations and accusations, and hope no one notices you've changed the subject. I noticed. You obviously can't defend your position. I love debating the left...
Again, can you say ANYTHING on topic to enlighten us on your stance? Anything?
I'll check back later to see what you'll accuse me of next.
The last anon. post was not my anon. post. I'm the liberal from the earlier post. I have no idea who the Bible commenter is.
ReplyDeleteYou put the word facts in quotes first.
I fail to see what there is to debate. The dictionary has no legal standing. Your attempt to use word logic was unconvincing. You see abortion as murder. I do not. Hence, nothing to debate.
How to fund more social spending? Raise taxes on the upper brackets and cut defense spending. As I wrote, I'm a liberal.
Sorry, I thought it was you. This would be easier if folks would at least post with a nickname (hint, hint).
ReplyDeleteYou fail to see what there is to debate? You believe one thing, I believe another and your conclusion is “hence, nothing to debate”? If we were in agreement, THEN there would be nothing to debate. Debate occurs only when there are contradicting viewpoints. I believe what you actually meant to say was you don't want to debate. That's cool.
As far as the dictionary having legal standing, that was directed toward EHM (the first post) who had sent me something prior to the blog regarding the definition of “baby” trying to indicate that a fetus was not a baby, and I suppose therefore not a human. I debated her assertion using her own means to disprove her. If you'd like legal standing then I can offer that if a pregnant woman is murdered then the suspect can be charged with two counts of homicide. So legally killing an unborn baby is murder. See that? Debate!
Even if we taxed all households that make over $250,000 and every Fortune 500 company at 100% we'd barely cover the deficit. You may want to read up on the Laffer Curve as far as raising taxes (even on the rich) goes. Reagan lowered taxes as President and revenue doubled in his eight years in office. I personally am a proponent of a flat tax. As for cutting defense spending... that's one area where you get what you pay for. The equipment is wearing down with not enough replacement and repair parts are getting scarce. I'm saying this as a Navy Chief who retired at the end of February. I'd rather see a cut to education... we've been bumping their budget massively for years upon years now with NO return on investment.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I did put the word facts in quotes first. Look how I used it. I put it in quotes because, as I point out in that same post, I do not believe one of the “facts” I posted. That's a Planned Parenthood “fact.” So as I implied about you, I was dismissing one of the pieces of information, hence the quotes.
ReplyDeleteYour serve.
You might want to study up on your history of Reagan and the economy under his administration a bit more. It was not nearly as impressive as people seem to remember it. Plus, he raised taxes, after he lowered them, a decision that would get him thrown out of office by today's Tea Partiers.
ReplyDeleteGHW Bush's approach to the budget was much better and Clinton reaped the benefits of those hard decisions Bush made (and paid for them politically) in his administration. Clinton then raised taxes and revenues continued to increase.
What year is this, 1980? Thanks, I'm well aware of the Laffer Curve. Former Reagan and Bush officials now admit that the Laffer curve does not work in practice. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1692027,00.html
No need to trade links on the Laffer Curve. I won't waste my time debating that with you, either. Smarter people than either of us have already debunked its practical uses.
anon. Liberal.
Sorry I've been away, I have school during the week.
ReplyDeleteI'll brush up on the Laffer Curve. Thanks for the link to get me started.
With that said, this is a discussion based blog. My first blog says that. I put out a topic and hopefully it gets discussed. Before you get all blue in the face that I get to pick the topics, here are three things to consider...
1) It's MY blog. I built it, I manage it, I tend it. My labor of love, my rules.
2) The first blog I ever posted says, “If there is a subject you'd like me to share my views on please ask.”
3) I have numerous invites throughout the posts and comments on this site for folks to write an opinion piece and I will post it for them. That offer includes you.
We started out with your ad hominem posts. Then, and this is my fault for encouraging it, you hijacked the thread away from the topic. My goal was to get you talking. However, you have once again stated your point and then stated you're not going to debate the topic. You clearly do not understand debate.
I'm going to leave these posts up only because other than being completely frustrated with your complete refusal to even consider another persons opinion, I believe you have a right to be heard. With that said, you truly are the definition of ethnocentric. Additionally, you have yet to say anything that actually debates my original post. You malign, insinuate and infer but you do not, and I believe, can NOT defend your position on abortion. Saul Alinsky would be proud.
Come back when you would like to DEBATE me, and again, thanks for the link on the Laffer Curve. I really will check out what you said.
Take care “Anonymous Liberal,” Jumbo Shrimp.
I believe it's every woman's choice to be a mother or not.... to carry a child or not.... and the decisions we make we have to live with! I personally don't think I could do it, but I would never condone anyone decision either way!
ReplyDelete